Interview with mining OG Jeremy: Bullish on gold, silver, and tungsten; investing in minerals through concession models.

Author: Miscellaneous Talks on Seeing the Big Picture from Small Details

I listened to a very interesting blog post tonight, especially about alternative mining investment models. The essence of mining investment, the stage where real profits are made, is after production begins coupled with rising metal prices. Therefore, from a cyclical perspective, initial projects before listing are unlikely to attract funds (risks include cycle time, liquidity, and exit time).

However, another model, which uses financial instruments to separate the risks of the mining cycle, is being explored in many places, including the concession model of mineral investment mentioned in this article, which is currently being done more overseas.

The moderator of this conversation is Rob Tyson, founder and director of Mining International and Mining International Executive, a leading global mining recruiting and executive search firm.

Guest Jeremy Gray, a highly active mining executive and entrepreneur, currently serves as CEO of several companies, including Pilar Gold, Pure Tungsten, Tuscano Gold, and Gold Road, and is also the founder of Chancery Royalty.

Jeremy's business spans multiple commodities, jurisdictions, and business models, and currently gold, key minerals (such as tungsten), and alternative financing structures are clearly back in focus.

This conversation explored Jeremy's thoughts on building and operating multiple companies simultaneously, why gold and tungsten are important now, what advantages the concession model offers that traditional mining doesn't, and how he sees the next phase of the mining cycle unfolding.

Key points:

I. Views on Gold Prices and the Market

Jeremy predicts that gold prices will reach $5,000 in the short term, rise to $5,500 before the Chinese New Year (February 17), and may reach $7,000 by the end of the year.

The current rise in gold prices is believed to be driven by multiple factors:

1) Chinese demand: Actual consumption may be 10 times higher than official data.

2) Indian demand: remains strong.

3) Emerging players: such as Tether and central banks around the world are increasing their gold holdings.

4) Physical gold shortage: For example, the Turkish government buys gold at a premium of 357% above the spot price, and Dubai refineries begin to offer premiums (rather than discounts) to buy gold.

It is advised not to sell gold hastily, as gold is still in the early stages of an upward trend.

II. Views on the Silver Market

Silver prices are expected to reach $18-20 per ounce by the end of the year.

The market has been in a state of supply shortage for 5-6 years, and the short positions are huge (equivalent to 4-5 years of global production).

Chancery Royalty specifically included silver in its portfolio to increase diversification.

III. The Importance of Tungsten Mines and the Positioning of Pure Tungsten

Tungsten ore supply is tight due to the lack of new mines coming online in the next 40 years and China's shift from an exporter to a net importer.

Prices rose from $320/10 kg 18 months ago to $1,050/10 kg (or $100,000/ton), far exceeding those of copper (approximately $14,000/ton).

Pure Tungsten has a soon-to-be-operational tungsten mine in South Korea (near the Almonty mining area) and is cooperating with a high-grade tungsten mine in Tajikistan.

IV. What is the Royalty Model?

The concession model carries lower risk and less pressure, especially compared to traditional mining operations.

Features of Chancery Royalty:

1) Fast deals: For example, the deal with Ethiopian Kefi Mining went from contact to signing in just 6 weeks.

2) Low cost: No due diligence fees are charged to mining companies (traditional companies may charge $300,000 to $400,000).

3) Retail investor support: Relies on retail investor funds (already has 1400-1500 investors), believing that retail investors are more reliable than large funds.

The goal is to surpass mid-tier franchise companies such as Versamet or Elemental in the medium term.

The so-called "concession business" is a very important financial and investment model in the mining industry, usually referred to in Chinese as " mining concessions " or " mining royalty/royalty " business. A concessionaire pays a sum of money upfront to a mining project in exchange for the right to receive a share of the minerals produced by that mine in the future.

The core operating model of franchise investment:

1) Initial investment: The concession company (such as Jeremy's Chancery Royalty) provides the mine owner with a one-time, non-repayable cash advance.

2) In exchange for future revenue: In return, the franchisee obtains a long-term right:

• Royalty: A small percentage (e.g., 1%-3%) of the mine's future total sales revenue. This fee is paid as long as the mine is producing and selling ore.

Metal Stream: The right to purchase a specific quantity of minerals (such as gold or silver) from a mine at cost price (e.g., $400 per ounce) far below market price. The concessionaire can then sell them at market price (e.g., $2,300 per ounce) and profit from the difference.

Why is this model attractive?

1. To the franchise company (investor)

Light operation & high leverage: Unlike mine owners who bear the risks of operating cost overruns, safety accidents, and resource depletion, franchise companies only make financial investments. Once commodity prices rise, profits based on sales revenue royalties and metal flows will multiply. No involvement in day-to-day operations is required.

Portfolio diversification: A single investment can be used to invest in multiple mines in different regions and with different mineral types, thus mitigating risk. This is why Jeremy aims to build the "fastest-growing concession group."

2. To the mine owner (mining company)

Non-dilutive financing: Unlike issuing new shares, this type of financing does not dilute the equity of existing shareholders.

No debt burden: This money requires no repayment of principal or interest, improving the company's balance sheet. Payment is only required after the mine successfully produces output.

Quick access to funding: Jeremy specifically emphasized his fast-track model. Traditional franchises are slow and expensive, while his Chancery Royalty does not charge due diligence fees and makes decisions quickly (such as the deal with Kefi, which went from meeting to funding in just 6 weeks), which is crucial in a market environment with high gold prices.

The following is the interview content.

Rob Tyson : Could you briefly introduce your career and what you're currently busy with?

Jeremy Gray : Simply put, we own 6 companies, including 4 gold mining companies: Pilar Gold, Livergold, Tokano Gold, and Gold Road.

We also have a large tungsten mining company called Pure Tungsten. We are actually about to start production near the Almonty mine in South Korea. So we believe we will be the next Almonty Industries.

But I have actually stepped down as CEO of most of the operating companies in order to focus 100% on Chancery Royalty, where we are basically going to build the fastest-growing gold and silver franchise group in the industry .

Rob Tyson : As I mentioned, your company is involved in multiple commodities and is now venturing into the franchise space. How do you consider operating multiple companies and platforms simultaneously? What are some common guiding principles across different assets and stages of development?

Jeremy Gray : I think the key is to delegate and let go, and not try to control everything in the company. So find a strong management team and let them do things their own way.

My job is mainly to finance them, get gold mines or tungsten mines in South Korea started, and then let them run them themselves, rather than being a control freak.

This model has been running for seven years with considerable success. When the price of gold is $4400 instead of $1600, everything progresses much faster. When the market is strong and performance is good, you simply let professionals run the business, because Rob, I am not an operator.

I'm telling you, I heard your excellent interview with Martin (the gentleman who used to work at Centerman). That's a real operator. He's the kind of person we'd hire and bring into our portfolio.

But I'm just a promoter. I enjoy trading, and franchises are the ultimate form of trading .

Rob Tyson : Yes. You just mentioned the price of gold. In our last episode, you mentioned $5,000 as a target price. While it hasn't been fully reached yet, I think it will be soon.

What are your thoughts on this? Would you be willing to make a prediction? Why do you think gold prices might not have reached that level yet?

Jeremy Gray : I think the target price is within reach, possibly in the next 2 to 8 weeks. We expect it to reach $5,500 before Chinese New Year (February 17th), but ultimately $7,000 before Christmas.

I'm increasingly thinking this way, somewhat like when I think back to the first house I bought in Richmond, Melbourne (next to MCG). My brother and I bought it for $240,000 and sold it three years later in '96 for $650,000, feeling like heroes.

That was a beautiful old Victorian house, one of my favorite houses in Melbourne. It's probably worth $4 million now. I think the same applies to gold: don't rush to sell.

When everyone is saying, "Oh, 2025 was a great year, and it will never be again..." Ah, some gold funds, like Schroder's Jim Luke Fund, have risen by 200%, and people are saying, "Jim will never achieve anything like this again."

I bet he will, maybe not 200%, but at least 100%. So I think we're in the early stages of a very big market move. Don't be scared by these high prices; they won't fall in the short term.

Rob Tyson : Yes, the same is true in overseas markets. Continuing with gold, which has fluctuated over the years, what do you see as the different environment for gold prices now? Why should it warrant renewed investor attention?

Jeremy Gray : Basically, China started this rally. Every time I meet Chinese people, I go up and hug them, and I get emotional and cry, because they really saved our group after 24 very difficult years.

Then the market broke through $2100, and you know, the rest is history. But basically, I think Chinese consumption is more than 10 times the official figures. Indian demand remains strong, but now there are players like Tether, and all the central banks are buying.

I even heard yesterday that the Turkish government is now paying a 3.57% premium over the spot price just to get physical gold. This is another typical sign: we keep getting calls from Dubai refineries: "Hey, can we be your underwriters?"

In the past, they would typically demand a 4%-5% discount to buy your gold because they were "exploiting" Africans with a 10% discount. Now they offer a 0.5% to 1% premium.

So the market is now all about physical gold, replacing the paper market. I think we'll all be surprised.

Rob Tyson : Absolutely. Moving on to precious metals, gold is clearly your main commodity. So what about silver? What are your thoughts? Apparently, a lot has happened in the silver market, such as China recently introducing a policy requiring licenses for silver exports.

I'd like to know your opinion on this, and how the silver market compares to the gold market?

Jeremy Gray : So silver could reach $18-20 by the end of the year. Supply has been short for 5 or 6 years. Huge short positions—if you believe in conspiracy theories, the current short position is equivalent to 4 to 5 years of mine production.

The short positions in gold could be equivalent to two years of mine production. So, well, I think some large banks and investment banks are having sleepless nights because of the size of their short positions.

So yes, silver is definitely going to go up. That's why, at Chancery Royalty, we managed to secure underwriting rights for silver byproducts from the lovely Gold Road mine in Arizona, as we wanted to add a little extra appeal to our portfolio by including silver.

Rob Tyson : You've been involved in the operations, development, and growth phases of a golden business. How do you view risk and value creation differently between operating assets and developing projects? In what ways do investors typically misunderstand this trade-off?

Jeremy Gray : That's a good question, Rob. You know, our business model for the past seven years has been to buy large secondhand gold mines, then run around looking for funding to try and get them up and running , buying them for 1-2 cents ($0.01-0.02) of the original price.

We have never been involved in the development phase . The same is true for Pure Tungsten; we merged with TBI, led by the outstanding Korean CEO Tiger Kim, and now own a fully-built mine and processing plant.

So we don’t usually get involved in early-stage projects, well, even though they’re doing well in the market right now.

Rob Tyson : Obviously, tungsten doesn't receive as much attention as precious metals, lithium, and copper. But it is clearly strategically critical. For those less familiar with it, what makes tungsten so important? Why do you think Pure Tungsten is well-positioned in today's geopolitical and supply chain environment?

Jeremy Gray : The beauty of tungsten is that no new mines have been built in 40 years, and many have closed down. China used to be the dominant player, but now they are a large net importer .

The market price has risen from $320 per 10 kg 18 months ago to over $1050 per 10 kg. So now it sells for $100,000 per ton, which is quite considerable. You know, copper only sells for around $14,000.

Therefore, it is a very high value-added product. When you are in a 40-year bear market, this is actually a good thing because nobody is building anything new. This means that when demand suddenly explodes, everyone will be caught off guard.

So I think this market could actually double again. We announced the merger with Tiger and GBI eight months ago when the market was still down. You have to do these deals when the market is down, or you'll be squeezed out by those smooth-talking promoters in Perth and Vancouver.

So tungsten will be a very exciting commodity . I think the Sanjong mine will be just as good as the Sandong mine in Almonty. We also have a great joint venture project in Tajikistan, where Tiger secured the Mekahora mine, which I think is probably the world's highest-grade tungsten mine.

It supplied a third of the Soviet army's tungsten needs during World War II and has a large tailings stockpile and resources that can be mined for another 50 years. So Pure Tungsten is a pretty exciting little company. We plan to take it public. I want to list it on the New York Stock Exchange and am currently looking for a SPAC (Special Purpose Acquisition Company). I think it has the potential to become a billion-dollar company. I mean, Almonty is now worth 3 billion Canadian dollars. So kudos to them, Lewis Black has done a fantastic job.

Rob Tyson : I'd like to talk about something you're really excited about right now. Apparently, you recently launched Chancery Royalty. What attracted you to the concession model? What advantages does it offer compared to traditional mining ownership, both in terms of risk and capital allocation?

Jeremy Gray : Yes, Rob, I came from the concessions sector before we got into the gold mining business. We were the largest investor in a company in Papua New Guinea called K92.

We offered a 0.5% franchise interest and an 8,000-ounce metal flow agreement to the late, great Tookie (may he rest in peace) and Ian Stalker at the time, and we hold a 25% stake in K92 at $0.20 per share.

The stock is currently at $24, with a market capitalization of $5 billion. So we've always been in the franchise space. But around 2019, we switched from franchises to buying gold mines.

That's not a particularly interesting journey because the franchise business is much less stressful. So franchisee people would never become gold miners, but it's easy for gold miners to switch to franchising. It's like going from a doctor who needs to be on call 24/7 to a franchisee with plenty of free time.

I think many of them spend their time in very expensive clubs, and we're not members. So, we've been quite surprised by the market's reaction since we launched 5 weeks ago.

We already have, well, we already have 4 concession projects, 3 in production, and a large concession project in Kefi, Ethiopia, which will start production in about 18-19 months.

We are looking for more franchise projects and hope to become bigger than Versamet or Elemental, who are darlings of the midstream franchise space.

We are incredibly excited about this business. It's been a huge revelation for our team. We haven't had a single day off since Christmas. Ed and the guys were even working on Christmas Day, just because our funding round received a huge influx of investor interest. It's unbelievable; I've never seen anything like it.

Rob Tyson : It's great to hear that. So, what are your goals for the company in driving this business forward? How do you envision its plans for the next four, five, or seven years?

Jeremy Gray : We basically like to think of ourselves as the Costco of the franchise industry, not Harrods food court (that's where other guys hang out). Let me give you an example.

Our fourth deal is Kefy, which I believe is one of the most exciting untapped gold mines in Africa today, located in Ethiopia, one of the greatest countries in Africa.

We met Harry about 5 weeks ago? No, less than a month ago. We will provide him with the funds within 2 weeks, so it will only take 6 weeks from the meeting to the funds being in place. We signed a binding agreement 3 days after the meeting.

We don't charge exorbitant due diligence fees; in fact, we charge nothing. Most licensing firms will ask for $300,000 to $400,000 just to look at your project. Then they'll hire the most expensive lawyers in Vancouver or London and charge you another $200,000.

We cover all these costs ourselves because we have an in-house team, and we are gold miners ourselves, so we know the mines very well. Frankly, when gold was at $4,500, not many mines failed due diligence .

Therefore, the old franchise model of spending six months on due diligence and asking incredibly stupid questions is outdated. You must be realistic about the market; it won't turn back. We're headed for $7,000.

If you want to add a franchise to your portfolio, you have to act fast, and we're the fastest on the street. So if we want to do another deal, we have plenty of capital channels. We can raise funds quickly.

We already have three projects generating cash flow. Well, one in Gold Road, Arizona is already generating cash flow. Pilar starts next month, and Livergold in Finland starts in April or May.

So yes, our model is a bit different from the old exclusive members-only club model of the past 10 years.

Rob Tyson : You've obviously been through multiple market cycles. How do you see the differences between today's capital markets and previous cycles? What different things do mining companies need to do to earn the trust, capital, and patience that investors so desperately need?

Jeremy Gray : You know, Rob, you went through a really dark and terrible period from 2012 to 2024, when gold miners were doing terribly and financing was almost impossible. Many mines went bankrupt and projects were delayed indefinitely.

Developers and producers' reputations have plummeted because they simply cannot find funding, not because of their own fault, but because the market simply doesn't exist.

So when the market suddenly hit $4,500, you know everything starts moving fast, and if you're listed, it becomes very easy to raise equity financing by calling Canaccord or Haywoods and attaching a full set of warrants.

We come from the private equity space and raised funds through 100% retail channels—by the way, we now have 1,400 or 1,500 investors, and after this Chancery funding round, we'll be close to 2,000.

This reflects the sheer size of our private retail presence. Therefore, getting a retail investor to write a check during the private phase is approximately 10 times more difficult than issuing a full warrant on the public market.

Therefore, I believe the market is extremely hot, and financing is easy, but many non-first-tier projects also receive funding. But you know, that's the reality of a super-hot market.

Clearly, everyone has been much better off over the past 12 months. I believe the ability to raise funds will continue to be strong for some time.

Rob Tyson : Looking ahead to the next few years, what are you most optimistic about regarding the different commodities you're involved in—gold, key minerals, and alternative mining models? In what areas should investors and industry leaders be more cautious?

Jeremy Gray : I think gold and silver will remain the preferred trades . Clearly, people are currently chasing some less active assets, such as nickel and zinc, and anything that looks good on the charts and is at the bottom.

Tungsten mining will have another great year , but I'd like to continue focusing on gold and silver because I think they're in a very good structural position and will remain so for quite some time.

Just like what you see in the Australian property market, if you sold 10 or 20 years ago, it looks a bit silly now. I think the same applies to gold: it's not something that's just a flash in the pan.

So yes, we're sticking to precious metals for now. We almost bought a nickel mine in Brazil, but then the market went up, you know, suddenly they had other offers, so we've decided to focus on gold, silver, and concessions. And tungsten too.

Rob Tyson : Finally, I'd like you to summarize and talk about what you're truly excited about. Obviously, your focus right now is on the franchise business, but to summarize, what would you like to share with our audience?

Jeremy Gray : Okay, thank you so much, Rob. Look, we're just incredibly relieved that the market has finally turned around. All four of our gold mines are either in production or about to come online. It wasn't like that 18 months ago. Those were really tough times, and I want to thank all the amazing supporters who stood by us and persevered.

I'm very excited about all four gold companies—Pilar Gold, Livergold, Tokano Gold, and Gold Road. I'm extremely excited about Pure Tungsten and Sanjong Mining in South Korea. We're going to South Korea soon. The mine opening ceremony will be held in early April.

But the concession business is at least my focus. I don't need to wake up every morning approving payroll payments, dealing with field issues, equipment malfunctions, and all the hassles of mining. We're looking for new deals, and we're very excited to become bigger than Versamet and Elemental.

If any audience member wants to contact me, they can do so directly. Max, Eric, Ed, and I are all available to reach you at any time. The support of the retail market makes all of this possible .

Because I'm telling you, if you rely too much on a big fund or a big investor, they'll usually let you down at the last minute, whereas with retail investors, when the parents say they're going to do something, you know they're going to do it.

That's the big difference. When we say we're going to do a franchise deal, we do it. I say those franchise companies are called that because I think a lot of their management thinks they're royalty, that they're related to Kate, Harry, and William.

But we are not. We are ordinary people, we are gold miners, and we are very excited about building Chancery into a company with a market value of over $1 billion.

Rob Tyson : As Jeremy has implied, precious metals are clearly in a bull market, and gold will go even higher, but we should also keep an eye on the tungsten market, which isn't being talked about much. Jeremy obviously has a great project there, along with a franchise agreement and a new business that Jeremy has just started.